Bentall Pioneer Patent?

[martinpaff]

I wonder if any of you are patent experts (that's experts in patents, not experts who've been patented)...

I'm usually pretty good at tracking down old patents, but I've got stuck on this one. Cast into the hopper of my Bentall is: "Patent 11.944/13", exactly like that except that the stroke is vertical. Production of the Pioneer started in (apparently) 1912, and mine was made in 1915, so either the 11 or 13 may be the year, but it doesn't seem to fit the format for GB patents from those years.

Any thoughts?

Martin.

[crapscatter]

Martin
I've searched the European patents using all the headings I can think of with no luck. I can only guess that the patent you need has not yet been digitised.

regards
Roland

[martinpaff]

Thanks Roland

I also tried all the tricks that usually work for me, without success. A kind volunteer, who has "contacts" is trying a more direct route - we shall see...

Martin.

[martinpaff]

Just in case any of you Gents are interested...

A kind contact tracked down a GB patent lodged in 1913, and numbered 11,944, which would certainly appear to be the Patent quoted on the hopper of the Bentall. The problem, however, is that it was granted to an Eduard Pielock of Berlin, for improvements to the combustion chamber of a steam boiler! There is no suggestion of a link to EH Bentall or Essex.

The interesting thing about the patent is that although the inventor clearly had an advanced understanding of turbulent air and some novel ideas, I don't believe I've ever seen a boiler to this design, which would have been quite inneficient as it relied entirely upon heat transfer from the tubes to heat the water - the firebox is surrounded by air not water!

So, no further forward really...

There has been a suggestion that the lettering says; "The Patent Bentall Engine" and the numbering is not related - it could be read in several ways because of the way it's layed out - but the Bentall casting numbers all started with "16" (I'm told).

Ho hum!

Martin.

[boblester]

martin...
Unless it also covered the transfer of heat from a gas inside a chamber to the surounding water , in this case it would be very simular to a tube boiler ?


rgds
bob

[matth]

I was thinking it was something to do with the oiling system on them, but obviously not

[martinpaff]

[boblester]

Doing a quick google looks like Eduard Pielock of Berlin turned his toes up in 1914 , seems unlikely he would of been patenting things at the age of 60+ but who knows ?

if you have a look on http://www.wokulski.one.pl/tt/se-men.htm
you will find refernce to him some way down , bad news it is in polish good news is we have a polish electrican

this jist of it he was born in an area of germany which is now poland after the second world war in 1851 , after college he studied engineering and worked in the train bussiness and then ended up in berlin working for a company called "Schwartzkopff" who produced trians between 1867 and 1945 .

so who knows ?

[martinpaff]

Thanks Bob - sorry I haven't replied before, I don't visit as often as I should.

I'm beginning to think Mr Pielock is a red herring. I just can't see any connection between his interests and Bentall...

Ah well!

Martin.

[crapscatter]

Martin
You may have done this already but going here:
http://gb.espacenet.com/search97cgi/s97_cgi.exe?Action=FormGen&Template=gb/en/advanced.hts
and entering Bentall in the applicant field produces a range of interesting engine related. The results appear to have been re-numbered at some time
It includes one that appears to be for a Brons type on which one of the c-inventors is a Ransome. Another is for the Pioneer's odd impulse mechanism.
AFAIK Bentalls did not make a Brons type engine but Ransomes did make the decidedly non-magical Wizard.

ttfn
Roland

[martinpaff]

Thank You Rolland

I had spent some time in the Espace search, but you prompted me to go back and do it again, and finally some light begins to dawn...

I trawled carefully through all the (many) patents from Edmund Ernest Bentall, and then printed off only those that appear to apply to the Pioneer engines. Patent number 11,344 refers to "Improvements in and connected with the bed plates or frames of internal combustion engines" and describes the rather perculiar Bentall construction with the main casting split vertically.

Patents 5629/1912 and 8667/1914 also apply to the Pioneer.

It looks like I finally have my answer - the confusion caused by the cast number appearing to read 9 not 3.

Thank you to all who contributed.

Martin.