Suffolk challenge

[Numpty1]

Well it seems there are some quite divided opinions here and some very good comments. I for one dont particularly like the idea of lawnmower engines but a nice display can contain any type of engine. Also I think martinpaff has made a very valid point about rallies and talking to joe public. Where Ive had the most interest is at local village shows.
Back to the Suffolk challenge we seem to live in a sanitized age were dirt and grime are banished and everything has to be cool . therefore Dad/Mum might not like the idea of having a towbar fitted to their nice shiny XYZ GTI or a dirty great lump in the back of it. Suffolks are small enough to avoid this and dont take up too much room in the shed or on the patio. Then when the newcomer is old enough he/she can go their own way.
As far as my comment on the hobby dying, Idont think it will ever disappear completely but I believe it could contract significantly. I visited a rally this month that I hadnt been to for 8 years and boy what a change! Previously it was nearly invitation only as it was so popular and there was a great array of engines including a steam plant! This year it was a very laid back affair with less than half the engines and most simply plonked down not driving anything with no info about them at all. The few public that were about seemed quite bemused by the whole event. Not a good advert for the movement!

Mark

[boblester]

One last point , if the hobby is dying as sugested by so many people , whay does the dam prices of engines keep going up ?

[Landy]

I think we can blame Ebay for some of the increase in engine prices......

Chris

[TangyeDan]

[Numpty1]

Have they actually gone up? You can still pick up a Lister D for 30 quid, the same as it was about 15 years ago, so in real terms prices have probably gone down...

Couldnt agree more Dan. When you look at inflation and the cost of living, engine prices have IMHO gone down, although certain makes/models will always make good money but has our spending ability increased too? So some engines may seem expensive but in terms of inflation may not have actually increased that much.

Before I get labelled as a complete doom munger I hope to enjoy many more years rallying!

Mark

[crapscatter]

I'd agree for the most part. However there is a significant minority who only know or look at Ebay or on line facilities occupied by those of a similar ilk. They do not belong to Clubs or speak face to face with other enthusiasts.

This group seem to entirely lack both patience and any sense of market value. They will bid against each other for common items or repro volume sellers.
I do not blame the sellers for raising their prices to the average moron bid.

The same bidders of lesser gorm pay silly money for parts for common engines and also place far to much worth on prices that are asked. SEM's ads are now full of overpriced engines that have in some cases been "for sale" for years.

ttfn
Roland

[boblester]

In that case can you tell me what you could by a lister CS for about 10 years ago ? or a lister L or a petter S these models have shot up in price , sure you can still get a d and or a petter A cheap but thats supply and demand theres still bloody loads of them!

And as for ebay prices that just goes to show there is a demand out there, we all use it we have all had bargins and we have all sold things for more than we thought it was worth but the great thing is with out a doubt it will give you a reflection of the demand for things in the market .

bob

[hourlap]

[ploughman]

Hi Everyone,
When my father and I started our collection ( cant remember the date, but Fairford rally was just starting) we only paid around a fiver for most Amancos and the most expensive engine was a six horse Ingeco, in complete and runnable condition for twenty pounds. Listers were left, too modern!
Regards,
Ploughman

[crapscatter]

I recall getting a then friend a number of engines "for his collection" at those sort of prices.
Found out later that most were sold within days or weeks. The fundamental orifice is no longer on my Xmas card list.

ttfn
Roland

[JohnM]

[campingstoveman]

John,

I'm sure some of your comments are true but I still think there is a hint of wind up in your message. In years to come the youngest classic car will be late seventies early eighties, none of todays vehicles will survive for one simple reason. obsolesence. The electronics on a 10yr old car will scrap it when the box of tricks fails because to replace or repair it will cost more the the metal box that it sits in.
One of my work collegues took his 2yr old Vauxhall vivaro van in for a 72000 mile service today, when he collected it there was a £720 bill to be paid for discs and pads x 4 steering components and a general sevice. The vehicle might do the miles but repairs and parts are horrendous, my van is waiting for a AC condensor £250 before its fitted.
As roland pointed out under the bonnet of my van is a load of plastic covers and a dip stick and the dipstick is the only thing I can check unless I have a laptop with the correct software to diagnose it, when I service my Rover P6 I have control of everything and its all repairable even if I have to make the odd part myself.

Martin P

[ploughman]

Hi Everyone,
May I add to observation that all the electronic trash in modern cars is coded so that it is impossable to just change the failed component, with one from a breaker.If you want to do this, you need to change everything including the keys!
Regards,
Ploughman

[JohnM]

Martin, These days discs are considered consumable items. It comes from the modern non-asbestos pads which are more aggressive. Fortunately, discs are now fairly cheap, Ford Focus front discs and pads cost £40 a car set. That’s hardly big money and they’re easy to fit, except they use new fangled metric spanners so Whitworth doesn’t fit well.
I know what you mean about you’re P6 Rover being simple. Does it have an electronic alternator? Can you repair it? Can you replace the water pump seal? At least the AC condenser will never fail. Don’t get me wrong, I love the old cars as well. My MGB and early Mini are great to work on and own but so is my modern car. Yes, it has an ECU but it has in-built diagnostics that I can read with a code list. I’ve owned it for about 6 years and it’s been in the garage twice, then only because I ran out of time. I feel I can work on it as easily as an older car. If you open your bonnet and remove the plastic covers, there’s actually a piston engine in there with all the internals that we know and love.
I’m not aware that all electronics are coded. Certainly some major components are matched to stop cloning, mileage fiddling, etc. The sensors that I’ve replaced have all worked as soon as I fitted them. However, you can get user programmable ECUs that will work on any car. The tuning industry is well into this. It’s the modern equivalent of porting and polishing a cylinder head that we used to do to Minis and Anglias in the 60’s. Your colleagues van needed new discs at 72000 miles. If you drove a P6 for 72,000 miles in 2 years and it only needed new discs, pads and ball joints, you would make great claims of reliability. My MGB king pins last about 30,000 miles and Mini ball joints about 20,000.
When I was young, old folks lamented the demise of the chassis and oil bath air filters. Engine reconditioners made a good living reboring engines and grinding crankshafts. The UK has moved on. We either embrace it or live in a museum.

John

[hourlap]