Internal Fire Museum of Power

Gentlemen,

This is just general curiosity but i've been watching a programme on the tv about wind farms and would love to know what the general opinion is on the subject.
My view is that I'm all for them particularly as they are one of the means of energy production that in relation to other means works. As an Engineer I find them interesting both technically and asthetically and wouldnt mind them in close proximity to my house, so over to you lot.

Martin P

Hi everyone.
Wind farms are the largest con ever perpetuated on the population! They only work at 21% of their rated output, and will never generate enough power to offset the cost of construction and erection.In periods of high pressure in winter, when power is needed,they sit still as at these times there is no wind! To cap all this, as they are so unreliable, normal power stations have to be kept running, in case the wind drops!
To conclude, they are just something the government can point to, while stuffing people with yet another green tax.
Regards,
Ploughman

Not sure on the above, the ones down near me (The Lizard) and up on the A30 seem to be going all the time, and they cant be that bad as they have been sold 2nd hand to some other country to be replaced by bigger new more efficient wind turbines, plus Im sure the 18 years they been in place they have paid for themselves.

the new ones done Goonhilly downs (The Lizard) produce an average 29.2 gigawatt hours per year, This means that all of the lizard peninsula's electricity can be produced by wind, but we get a fair bit of wind.

Cheers Steve

It would be nice to think they're of good use, but the sadness is that they aren't well suited to modern power demands. The only reason so many exist now is because of the subsidies given to the people making/erecting them.

Nuclear - it's the only answer ........

Dazzla

Gentlemen,

Now let me ask another question, based on what happened at Chernobyl in 1986, which is still affecting Europe and this country even after twenty five years, and what recently occurred in Japan which is also affecting this country and the world what other alternatives are there because if Nuclear comes to the fore I can see a massive backlash from the peoples of many countries over its use, particularly as the Japanese sites where some of the safest in the world because of their position regarding eathquakes. So what of the future where do we go from here.
Again I have no axe to grind just interested.

Martin P

There is no quick and easy answer to the power demands of a modern society. I am not particularly swayed by the ‘green’ agenda. I do recycle as I believe that is worthwhile but when it comes to our energy needs alternative energy sources be it wind, tidal, solar etc in my opinion cannot meet the needs demanded upon them. In reality the only energy source that can meet such demands at the moment is nuclear. I realise that it does have its drawbacks, what to do with the spent fuel rods and other materials that have come in contact with radiation, but alternative energy sources at the moment just cannot for full our energy demands.

Chris

Sadly because of successive governments dragging their feet and failing to invest in research into things like coal gassification we now have two choices: Nuclear or a grand switch-off (though some of the latter must surely happen!). The former will keep no.1 daughter fully employed

The problem with nuclear is that those same governments have lied and obfuscated for 60+ years because amongst other things the early programmes were for making bombs though dressed up as power generation.

There looks to be some promising research into nuclear with much less risky fuels and with no Plutonium creation.

I am utterly sick of governments feeble efforts at solving the problem with insulation - talk about a one-trick pony.

rant over
Roland

Roland,

You dont have rants just strong opinions

Martin P

Evenin' all. You'll be amazed to know I'm still alive! This is a topic I have taken an interest in for a while. Prepare for more ranting.

It seems to me that the idea of wind farming is well-intentioned but not much help in reducing our carbon emissions. Politicians love this sort of green window dressing, but, much like smug Hollywood actors showing off their benevolence to each other at charity functions, it's all about the gesture rather than the results.

I have it on good authority that if you calculate the amount of energy to make a turbine installation, steel production, transport, 50 ton concrete foundation, assembly and so forth, it will be found that it takes at least 25 years for a typical turbine to produce the same amount of energy, so they need to last a long time to be worth the bother. This means that for at least twenty five years the energy they produce contributes more carbon to the atmosphere than the energy sources they replace. I don't know what life an installation would have, does 50 years sound about right?

Wind can only ever contribute a small proportion of the total energy mix, as it does not blow to order. We could use their energy to produce hydrogen for cars by electrolysing water, or we could use them to drive pumped storage systems, but the massive investments required and the poor efficiency of these arrangements militates against them.

You could argue that energy is still relatively cheap, so that it is worth investing energy now, as the energy in the future is likely to be rather expensive. The IAE only recently admitted that oil production peaked in 2006, so given there are more consumers every year and less oil to go around, unless there's some serious step-change in technology (cold fusion anyone?), there's only one way energy prices will go...

I think it should be a much more effective energy source to justify marring our uplands with turbines, associated power lines and access roads, and that's coming from someone with upland farmland who could stand to gain some income from wind turbines.

I don't know what the answer is. As far as I can gather, we've spent the last 100 years using up half of the world's oil reserves, and given cars, central heating and modern manufacturing industy didn't exist 100 years ago, I can't see the second half lasting that long (particularly when the world population has at least tripled since then). Echoing what Roland says, we are not served well in energy strategy by short-termist, self-serving politicians who never take any responsibility for any decisions.


Arthur G

The point that worries me the most is whilst we all share a common interest in engines, we are all from different backgrounds and no doubt vote for different political party’s but at the same time we all appear to share an underlying common sense to our energy needs. If that is the case why do we not get listened to more rather than the minority?

Chris

Chris,

I would suggest that the fact that we all have similar interests would most likely suggest that we all have the same back grounds, god forbid as for being the minority have you not read in the bible that "the meek shall inherit the earth" whats left of it any way.

Martin P

Oh, that's nice. I'm glad they're getting something, 'cause they have a hell of a time.

As for the right and wrongs of various energy policies - I don't think any of us can hope to cut through the spin from all sides and get to the truth of the matter.

BTW. Nice to hear that Arthur is still out there - somewhere!

NHH

It always struck me that the only reliable, sure and certain form of renewable energy must be tidal. As long as the moon and sun are floating around out there in space, there will be tides. There is a lot of water, and it moves a lot - that's a lot of energy. Our problem is that nobody has developed a sensible way of harvesting it! As the planet's energy needs spiral and the fossil fuels expire, then more real effort will be put into the alternatives.

Martin, we have a reasonable size (16 large turbines) farm a short distance from here. On the featureless fens I think they look good and I'm happy to see them - but a couple of miles is quite close enough; they are far from quiet!

Martin.

There was a letter in the local paper tonight from an angry resident of a village near Howden, moaning that the propsed wind farm near their village is going to spoil the lovelly view they have. I had to chuckle at this, as the view currently consists of 14 wind turbines, Drax Power station (One of the largest coal fired stations in the Europe), The M62 bridge over the River Ouse, and the cranes etc at Goole Docks. Personally I think some more wind turbines would improve the view.

Like so many things, the power consumer has become 'disconnected' from the means of production. It's within my memory when practically every town had its own gas works and not too many years before that that the electricity power station would have been there too. Now we all want the convenience, but no one actually wants to see the dirty business involved in providing it.


NHH