Help wanted with Petter 5hp Victory model

Discussion in 'Help Wanted' started by picklesquirt, Jan 24, 2011.

  1. picklesquirt

    picklesquirt Member

    Hi all I have just joined the forum and am new to this hobby, so please excuse silly questions.
    I have just aquired a Victory model 5hp Petter 2 stroke. I don'tunderstand how the dripfeed lubricator is intended to work.
    My engine has a single chamber lubricator mounted on the govenor side of the cylinder jacket. It has a pipe into the air inlet flap valve chamber. It appears to drip oil into the air inlet. Is this to lubricate the big end or simply to maintain the oil level in the sump and the big end lubricated by splash only. Also I from can see no mechanism to stop the oil feed when the engine is stopped except by closing the drip feed regulator. Surely the engine operator did not have to remember to do this every time the engine is stopped or started.
    I have cleaned out the sump and refilled with oil today and the fuel chamber and atomiser. The engine now starts fine and runs on heating oil when hot. But should I expect it to 2 stroke when off load? At present it tends to about 8 stroke with the govenor hunting from shut to full open.
    Would be very greatful for any advice
    Thanks
    picklesquirt
     
  2. petternut

    petternut Administrator

    You arre correct. The internals are lubricated by splash. The dripper replenishes that lost through the exhaust. The level inside is set by the level plug.
    The dripper needs to be openeed on starting and closed on stopping.
    The engine was expected to have an attendant when designed in 1914.
    A 5hp will not 2 stroke with less than 1/3-1/2 load and should be run on petrol at less than that load.
    Off or lightly loaded on kero it will not burn properly and will shower oil spots and ooze from every pore.

    hth
    Roland
     
  3. Victoria

    Victoria Member

    Having seen that Roland was on this forum, I hesitated before replying for him to tell you as he is the 'guru' in such Pettering matters!
    However I was about to tell you almost exactly as Roland has said. Make sure you drain and clean out the cast iron exhaist as that will stop a lot of the airborne spots which are almost impossible to clean off any surface successfully. I well remember such an incident with a spectators caravan at a rally in Yeovil........

    Has it a cast iron oil chamber or, as in the case of one I once restored, a glass sight feed one? There are a prescribed number of drips per minute to set it at and yes! each time you start and stop - it has to be turned on and off.

    Eric
     
  4. picklesquirt

    picklesquirt Member

    Many thanks for your instant reply. I had overlooked that labour was so cheap in the 1920s.
    Having proved that it will run I now intend to strip it right down and re-build and repaint when it is a little warmer.
    Thanks again
    picklesquirt
    Thanks Eric
    It has a cast iron oil pot and the drip feed is open with a brass flap to cover it. It oozes more oil outside the pipe than goes down it.
    My first time on this forum and very nice to meet two experts so quickly
    Regards
    picklesquirt
     
  5. Victoria

    Victoria Member

    Petter chart reads "10 drops per minute for 5hp engine" This will depend on what viscosity oil you use. SAE 40 straight oil is the nearest equivalent to 1914 oil but has far better lubricity and additives. Remember that as it warms due to the heat of the engine, the oil flow will increase.

    A well fitting boiler suit is advised ... ..and maybe a hat of some sort :) You will learn a lot about Petter engines by subscribing to Stationary Engine magazine Instruction books and transefers are available through adverts in there as well as advice and helprgds

    Eric
     
  6. campingstoveman

    campingstoveman Active Member

    Picklesquirt,

    And not another two Ex Sperts will you find better any where else :wink:

    Martin P
     
  7. ploughman

    ploughman New Member

    Hi,
    you will still get oily even if you wear a full haschem suit! At Hungerford a few years ago there was a five hp with a right angel exhaust, the end of which lined up with the flywheel rim, so dripping black oil onto same! Many, were the " Old speckled visitors"!
    Regards,
    Harry
     
  8. jayeastanglia

    jayeastanglia Member

    if they are run on a load they wont leave oil smuts anywhere..I know got 1 and sold 1 a short time ago..the one i sold was belted to a dynamo at rallys(wasnt sold with dynamo)I bolted a car dynamo and a belt to the trolley and wired the rest to a control box and battery,this then charged up the caravan batterys on 2 day rallys..And they will 8 stroke on no load another way to calm it down is fit a second spring on the throttle to help keep it a little closed,this will stop the snap of the throttle open..And I always ran my on parrafin as if run on petrol once hot they tend to run very rough...And you will soon learn when its going to go bank in the silencer when its just been started and its still cold..
     
  9. petternut

    petternut Administrator

    my third attempt to post this! All the settings are here:
    http://www.petternut.co.uk/pettermtypesettings.htm
    Victory model ended in late 1921 when the 1922 model arrived. Wineglass came with the 1923 model though the first few had CI drippers. Victory heads scattered amongst 1922 and a few 1923 models - poor stock control?
    Running on light or no load on kero is very unkind to engine and neighbours. Unburnt fuel washes bore and oozes from every pore. It also carries unburnt oil to create the irremovable and paint-etching Petterspots (tm PT-E)

    hth
    Roland
     
  10. Victoria

    Victoria Member

    So as a further point of interest, what is the serial number - double check to see if it is stamped on the flywheels. DWE may be able to date it for you.

    I agree with Roland regarding Petter having a "random parts bin".
    Eric
     
  11. picklesquirt

    picklesquirt Member

    Good Morning Eric et al
    The serial No on the Petter brass plate is 47425 assuming it is the original plate. Can't see anthing on the flywheels.
    The chap I bought this engine from knows nothing of it's history or who has done what to it or when.
    As is, the fuel tank is in red oxide, the engine is green with some touch up in red oxide & the flywheels are black.
    Where the paint on the flywheels has flaked there appears to be green underneath and red below that.
    The engine appears to be complete and in good condition. I can't feel any play in the big end or the mains. It also has fair compression so I assume the rings are o.k There may be some noise from the little end or piston slap when she is running, but I don't know yet.
    The engine is painted but quit scruffy. Do you chaps normally take it all back to bare metal. Do need to buy a grit blaster?
    I assume red oxide and the Mid Brunswick Green is the way forward. I have the paint for our oil tank but it contains lead is that too antisocial? You can still get it from the farm suppliers.
    What material should I use to make new gaskets. Synthetic cork? Or is that too soft. Do know where I can buy this and what thickness would you recommend.
    Sorry for the endless questions but I have got the bug.
    Regards
    Ewan
     
  12. Victoria

    Victoria Member

    Ewan,
    I have requested details of date etc for you. Watch this space.
    Yes I believe red oxide after a good scrape and thoroughly clean all parts. Then apply the Mid Brunswick. Personally I believe that if the green oil tank paint is as good as that which my own tank was once painted with, it will be fine. Not everyone may agree. At least its oil proof......

    Proper gasket paper and cork where applicable. Fully check the small end for wear - thats usually the source of an unwanted noise.

    Piston rings, pegged away from ports, may need cleaning underneath in the bottoms of grooves and any oil return holes decoked.

    For literature etc , see inside front cover of SEM, current one, March 2011, is blue on front.

    regards
    Eric

    Eric
     
  13. Victoria

    Victoria Member

    Petter "SP VF" 47425 sold 06-10-1920 but customer's name is illegible.

    Roland will know what "SP" means. VF is factory type for 5hp.
    Eric
     
  14. petternut

    petternut Administrator

    "Semi-Portable" which mean it came on skids which only a horrse could pull. It has a rather hopeful handle at each corner !! All up with the skids and an empty water tank its 7 cwt (350Kgs).
    At that date I would expect it be as you have described. A 1918 model with a "Victory" head.
    As Eric says little end, bush and/or pin, wear is common and so are stuck rings. If you find the grooves full of carbon then I suggest also scraping the underside of the piston. If the ring grooves have a step or are worn to allow more than 0.002" side gap to rings it will pump oil and smoke heavily.
    I have a spare brand new 5hp pin if you need one.
    In general red flywheels are a detestable (IMHO) modern thing.

    Have fun with it.
    Roland
     
  15. matth

    matth New Member

    I hate red flywheels, red lettering, bolt heads etc, dont know why people do it!
     
  16. picklesquirt

    picklesquirt Member

    Roland/Eric & Others
    Many thanks for your help and advice, will keep in touch as work progresses.

    Ewan
     
  17. campingstoveman

    campingstoveman Active Member

    Gentlemen,

    I find your comments a little upsetting regarding red flywheels :( When I bought my 1947 Lister A twenty years ago it came off a farm in Essex where it had been used to drive a grain mill in a barn, I was offered the mill but didnt have any room for it at the time, it came from a dealer in Saffron Walden and it had red flywheels. When I restored the engine the only colours I found when I took it back to metal was Mid Brunswick Green for the engine body and red for the flywheels so I'm happy that that was its colours it got painted so I can only assume 1947 is considered modern :lol:

    Martin P
     
  18. Numpty1

    Numpty1 Member

    I dont think you know Mr Stoveman. Its taken me a while to understand him! :lol:

    In all seriousness, its up to individual opinion as pointed out by Roland.

    A friend has recently acquired a wartime Ruston PB which is in off farm condition and yes that has a red flywheel. He intends to keep it that way but will have some photos to prove its originality.

    Still this tread is about a Petter so lets get back to subject now, thanks.
     
  19. petternut

    petternut Administrator

    As always I'm open to correction but I've never seen any evidence of or for red flywheels on prewar Listers or Petters that retain their original factory paint. I have seen evidence for black, silver, grey, and green Petter flywheels. OEMs used what ever colour they wanted and that may be where red came from.
    The end-users re-painted things in all sorts of combinations. I have a PB starting-compressor set from a local factory that was painted dung-brown, blue and silver but underneath is the original Ruston green with silver lining.
    It grates on my eyes and every graphic artist I've met over the years objected violently to red and green in juxtaposition.
    Also as always you can use whatever colour you like.

    ttfn
    Roland
     
  20. campingstoveman

    campingstoveman Active Member

    Mark,

    Its nice to know that I'm that complex its taken you this long to work me out, I think I can be certain that charles (pulseshoes) is aware of what I'm like and Roland also for that matter :D

    Anyway back to the plot.

    Martin P
     

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