Lister H Lighting Plant

Discussion in 'Help Wanted' started by Landy, Jun 7, 2010.

  1. Landy

    Landy New Member

    I was lucky enough to win the Lister H and lighting plant that was recently on the forum in the ‘Identity’ section.

    I picked the set up yesterday. The collection went really well and the owners were very helpful with the loading onto the trailer etc.

    I managed to pop out after work today to take some photo’s and have a better look.

    Overall the engine appears to be in good condition. I took the crank cover off and thankfully this engine has all of its innards unlike the J!!

    My aim is to mechanically and electrically restore the engine and plant set and to keep it in its working clothes.

    The photo’s I have taken mainly concentrate on the carburettor set up as this in non original. As previously discussed on the forum this is a gas engine but it has been converted to petrol at some time in its life.

    The carburettor looks to have come off a lawnmower, perhaps someone can confirm this.

    Questions:

    What is the likely hood of finding a gas carburettor?

    Should I keep the current setup or try and find a H type petrol carburettor and fit that? (That would be more in-keeping).

    Is there a difference in compression between the gas and petrol engines?

    The RSJ’s that make the frame up, there is not enough room for a cooling tank, 3 options here, find longer RSJ’s, extend them, or have the cooling tank on a separate stand?

    Does anyone have any information on H gas engines, photo’s of the carburettor and gas set up?

    Thanks, Chris

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  2. Dazzla

    Dazzla Member

    Personally, I'd keep it as it is with the non-original carb. It has nice character to it. Plus, when the right one turns up you can swap them over.

    One curiosity I see is that the engine has a lovely vee-belt flywheel yet the dynamo sports a flat belt pulley ?

    Dazzla
     
  3. Landy

    Landy New Member

    I hadn't noticed that!

    The other thing I forgot to mention, I cleaned the magneto points and gave the engine a spin and there is a good spark which is a bonus!!

    The pipe coming out of the crank cover is another oddity, it is obviously an additional breather, but why?

    Chris
     
  4. petternut

    petternut Administrator

    Probably they ran it on kero!
    I suggest a seperate tank/stand as it'll otherwise make a very unwieldy assemblage.
    What is on the dynamo plate?

    good luck
    Roland
     
  5. Landy

    Landy New Member

    Hi Roland, why would it need an additional breather if they ran it on kero?

    I'll have to get the details of the dyno plate tomorrow.

    Chris
     
  6. chas

    chas Member

    Maybe the additional breather was fitted to vent the fumes outside the engine house. If this was the case the cover would be fitted the correct way around with the vent nearer the top otherwise the "U" bend would fill with splashed oil from the crankcase with it in it's current position. Is the original breather blanked off or been made inoperative?
    Good project.

    Dave
    Philippines
     
  7. Landy

    Landy New Member

    Hi Dave, the original breather is the metal grid type on the side of the engine, I will have a look after work to see if it has been modified at all.

    Chris
     
  8. Landy

    Landy New Member

    Checked the original breather, it is blocked off with a gasket on the inside so that explains the additional breather.

    Chris
     
  9. gazmill

    gazmill Member

    Hi Chris, I suspect that this mod was carried out due to oil loss through the breather mesh, this type crankcase does suffer oil leakage worse that the newer type, perhaps the engine was left unattended for long periods and the oil loss was an issue. It looks like a DIY mod to update it to me, it could have even been altered during preservation it's not unheard of.

    It's a very nice set I was tempted myself :)

    Cheers Gary..
     
  10. petternut

    petternut Administrator

    Chris
    Ignore my drivel, I agree with Gary. That looks like a standard board for Listers at that time and the dynamo could well be the right one for the board. The LH meter style is correct and centre scales of that meter is about right. The meter is switchable from charging to lighting circuit and therefore needs to show either + or minus.
    The dynamo is 1KW and the H type 1 1/2 hp. A rough rule of thumb for that era is KW=1/2 engine hp. Thus I suspect that the engine and dynamo are not an original pairing. 2hp would be an uprated H or D or a de-rated A.

    Have you worked out yet whether the flyhweel and dynamo pulley give the correct operating speed for the dynamo?

    Perhaps Eric could comment but I'm surprised that the flywheel has V belt grooves at its date, perhaps it was set up to drive either or both of dynamo or water pump.

    hth
    Roland
     
  11. Landy

    Landy New Member

  12. Numpty1

    Numpty1 Member

    Chris,

    Why remove the breather? Provided it works, its part of the engines history and if you are gonna leave the carb then the breather should stay too. There are plenty of restored H types around in original config so unless youre lucky enough to get a gas carb or are brave enough to make one, I'd leave it as found. An interesting oddity.

    Mark

    PS are you going to Tilford?
     
  13. Landy

    Landy New Member

    Hello Mark, an interesting point on the breather. For the time being I am going to check the engine over, and then see if I can get it running.

    Had a small issue yesterday, Tuesday after work I took the flywheels off the Lister J as it was leaking oil past the main bearings down the side of the engine block, I can only think I put the pressed steel bits on the crank shaft the wrong way round, my back felt a bit sore Tuesday evening, then yesterday could hardly move, it's a bit better today so will be taking it carefully for a while!

    If I could get the drawings for a gas carburettor then I would give making one a go.

    When is the Tilford ralley? That's only down the road from me and I have never heard of it........

    Chris
     
  14. gazmill

    gazmill Member

    Chris, heres a pic of a gas carb on a Lister A seen at Dorset, i would imagine that the H would be similar.
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    Chances of finding a Carb for an H are slim so a gas one would be near impossible IMO but you never know.

    Cheers Gary..
     
  15. Landy

    Landy New Member

    Hi Garry, I agree that finding a gas carb would be very difficult if not impossible. Making one might be possible, it would have to be done in sections, welded, then filler etc but the end result from the outside would look fairly original. It would be how the internals work that is the problem and without borrowing another gas carb or having the original drawings it would be very hard indeed.

    Chris
     
  16. petternut

    petternut Administrator

    It would be worth checking with David Harris. You never know he might have the drawing.
    Otherwise trial and error might serve. The arm presumably operates an open/shut valve and the lump in the casting hides a lightly sprung and angled valve opened by inlet suction.

    regards
    Roland
     
  17. Landy

    Landy New Member

    Does anyone have an email address for David? I have found his address in SEM Help line.

    Thanks, Chris
     
  18. Numpty1

    Numpty1 Member

    Hi Chris,

    Here is the link to download a form.
    http://www.csvac.com/Stationary-Engine- ... Entry-form
    and this is the Rural Life Museum calendar of events
    http://www.rurallife.plus.com/rlc/page9.html

    Back on the carb, I'm not sure it would be the same design as the A type as the H is an older design. First port of call for anything Lister surely has to be David Edgington whos email is Enginbooks@aol.com although I know he is taking a bit of a sabatical from engines at the moment. Perhaps Paul will know more on that?
    On the J type, Is it a pressure crankcase? and if so have you tried adjusting the tension on the breather? Too much spring tension can push oil out and not enough destroys the vacuum and the oil runs out!

    HTH Mark
     
  19. Landy

    Landy New Member

    Hi Mark, yes it is a pressure crankcase. I used the spring from my L as the original had rusted away. At the moment it has no spring as I am running both engines this Saturday at Hartley Wintney, so I might just have to top the oil up every now and then!!

    Thanks for the forms, will check with the wife on the dates, she manages the diary!!

    I did think about David, but it says nothing technical in SEM in the Help Line section, but I will fire off an email to him as he might have a photo.

    I have measured the pulley on the dynamo and it is 6 inches, the flywheels are 18", the engine is 450rpm and the dynamo is 1700rpm, can someone to the math for me please!
     
  20. TangyeDan

    TangyeDan Active Member

    3 times 450 equals 1350rpm, assuming zero belt slip. The dynamo pulley would have to be 4 3/4" to achieve the correct speed...

    Regards

    Dan
     

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